Grassroot President and CEO Keli’i Akina appeared recently with host David Bondy on “The Overton Window” podcast sponsored by the Michigan-based Mackinac Center for Public Policy, which you can hear by clicking on the image below. According to Wikipedia, the term “Overton Window” is named after former senior vice president at the Mackinac Center Joseph Overton, who proposed that “the political viability of an idea depends mainly on whether it falls within an acceptability range.” A summary of the podcast by Mackinac staffer Jessica Wyeth appears below; it has been edited for length.
_____________
Dr. Keli‘i Akina, president and CEO of the Grassroot Institute of Hawai‘i, discusses the institute’s work to improve the cost of living in Hawaii on “The Overton Window” podcast. Through collaboration and data-driven policymaking, he emphasizes the importance of working across political lines to create meaningful change.
A commitment to collaboration remains central to this work.
“‘E hana kākou’ is the Hawaiian way of saying ‘Let’s work together.,” Akina says. “Change comes about when parties work together on common ground. We don’t maintain distance from the other side. We talk about the other side as agents of change.”
Hawaii’s housing and tax challenges [are] significant, but recent efforts championed by the Grassroot Institute of Hawaii show that meaningful progress is possible. By continuing to build partnerships and focus on practical solutions, more residents may be able to afford to stay in the state they call home.
To hear the entire 22-minute interview, click on the video below. The transcript follows.
3-7-25 Keli‘i Akina featured on the “Overton Window” podcast with host David Bondy
Dave Bondy: Have you noticed politicians struggle to enact the things they run on — that regardless of who wins elections, lawmakers cannot pass whatever legislation they like? They find themselves bound by what is popular, or their sense of it. They can only act within a narrow set of ideas, and that range is called the Overton window.
And on “The Overton Window” podcast, we look at issues across the country and talk to the people who change what is politically possible. I’m pleased to be joined by Dr. Keli’i Akina, who is the president and CEO of Grassroot Institute in Hawaii. It’s great to see you, sir.
Keli’i Akina: Dave, it’s great to be talking with you. I don’t want to play this up too much, but we’re freezing here in about 81-degree weather, as I look at the snow behind you.
Bondy: Exactly. It’s going to be getting warm here next week in Michigan. We may actually hit 50 or even 60. So we have a warm streak added our way.
Akina: Well, that’s great. And that’s warming to our hearts because Mackinac is our sister think tank, and we just love you guys. You are doing great work.
Bondy: As as you are, and we’re going to talk about some of that today. And the first thing I want to talk about is something that people who maybe had never even been to Hawaii, something that comes up.
And even myself, when I was younger, I was a journalist for 25 years, and I had an opportunity to go work in Hawaii. It was about 15 years ago. But the one thing that was somewhat maybe in the way, I was always told housing, the cost of housing, the cost of everything.
What is the cost of housing like currently? What is the situation there? Because I know you’re actively involved in this policy issue.
Akina: Well, in Hawaii, you will find some of the highest costs of housing in the nation. In fact, our average on the main island, which is Oahu, where the capital city of Honolulu is, a median home is about a million dollars.
Bondy: Wow.
Akina: That’s a small three-bedroom, maybe 1,200-square-foot home, nothing to really brag about. And that’s causing a lot of problems for people, both for those who cannot afford to purchase — we have one of the highest rates of non-home ownership in the nation — but also for renters. It’s becoming harder and harder for the working person, who doesn’t own a home yet, just to rent a place to live.
Bondy: What are you doing? What is your organization doing to invest in reforming housing? Because it sounds like it’s an insurmountable thing to deal with. And you’ve been doing lots of great work at this.
What are you doing, and what are your plans for the future?
Akina: Well, housing has become a major issue for us at the Grassroot Institute. Not only because we care about housing and our residents and citizens in the state of Hawaii, but also because it’s become a way in which we can meaningfully address the principles for which we stand: individual liberty, economic freedom, limited accountable government.
Frankly, those are difficult to explain to people. But when they see that the way their government is behaving results in them not being able to afford a home, and their children having to move away, the stars kind of line up.
So, while certainly compassion for the residents of Hawaii drives us in terms of creating better policies for housing, it’s also the case that solving that problem helps us to show liberty at work. And this is a great opportunity for me to say thank you to Mackinac for “The Overton Window,” which has now become part of the discussion of policy all over the world.
A short a analysis as to why housing is becoming such an important issue for the Grassroot Institute and for Hawaii is to look at the Overton window. Certain things have lined up. One of them is people have started to get desperate.
They’re desperate because their government cannot solve the problem of providing housing. They’re desperate because this affects the ability to live in Hawaii. A second factor that has lined up with that has been truth of finally after years of research and communicating to the public, Grassroot Institute and other organizations have made some headway in deflating some misconceptions.
For example, the government oftentimes would say the reason that housing costs so much, the reason it’s so scarce is because of the scarcity of land. But as we’ve pointed out through experts, Hawaii doesn’t have a scarcity of land. We build housing and urban development on only 5% of the landmass.
Bondy: Wow.
Akina: It may shock people to realize 95% of the landmass in Hawaii has no building on it. And so we’ve been at work dispelling these misconceptions. Another one being that it is mainlanders, folks like you, Dave, who come into Hawaii on a vacation and you see a property and you buy it.
The myth of the outside buyer is something we’ve exposed and researched. And there are several others. And the result is people are now able to hear — and even government is able to hear — that the cause of the high price of housing in Hawaii is largely regulation by government.
And finally, a third factor in the Overton window, I would say, is influence. We set about several years ago, about four years ago at the Grassroot Institute, to pursue a strategic plan to become the most influential voice in public policy in the state of Hawaii. And that factor has really allowed us to go to the edge of the Overton window and see some major wins in housing and anti-regulation policy.
Our influence, we’ve worked very hard on extending it to government. It’s basically a one-party state, and we have learned how to work within that one-party state in order to actually help politicians — whether they’re Democrat or Republican or whatever — to look good by using good public policy.
So, Dave, I could keep talking about that, but I just wanted to put a plug in there that the Overton window factors have moved the window, and this is a great time for us to move ahead in good public policy for housing.
Bondy: I believe we’re seeing that here in Michigan as well. Jarrett Skorup, who deals a lot with licensing and regulation, we’re seeing that in Michigan, the Overton window.
People seem to be waking up to how the licensing, the regulation is really hurting, and it seems to be an awakening of people. Because you said — desperation — and now they’re seeing what really is going to take.
So we’re seeing lawmakers on both sides in Michigan realizing, hey, maybe we don’t need, or this legislat— or that licensing, this regulation is actually hurting. So maybe it’s not just Hawaii. Michigan, I think we’re starting to see it as well. So that’s a good thing.
Akina: Yes. And it’s a factor that we have in common in terms of the way we approach public policy.
Bondy: Another question: How does the Grassroot Institute promote rapid housing development with the need to preserve Hawaii’s unique cultural and environmental landscape? I’m sure many have discussed this before.
Akina: Well, that’s an issue fraught with emotion, particularly for those who are fearful that development is going to in some way damage the beauty of the islands or the sustainability environmentally of the islands.
We basically look at it as a contest between building out, which people have real problems with urban sprawl and so forth, moving into the interior, which is largely watershed preserve. We see a battle between that and an alternative: building up or building inward. So we can either build out or we could build inward.
We’ve decided at the Grassroot Institute, after analyzing this, that there’s more alliance that can be built around growing the density where people already live. So finding places where cities have popped up, where urban core has developed, and fortifying them by increasing the density is one of the more important ways of being able to increase housing supply.
And we went to the Legislature with a set of proposals as to ways in which we could increase density without urban sprawl into the interior, and we were quite successful in 2024.
Bondy: What strategies did you use to bring together diverse groups? Especially when, I understand — and correct me if I’m wrong — there was strong opposition in certain sectors like the Honolulu City Council. I mean, we have pushback in Michigan. What strategies did you use to bring those groups together?
Akina: Well, I think it’s important to recognize that there’s always a point of intersection one can find between competitive parties. And the key is to find that place where we intersect and work together on that point and to grow that point.
To do that, we coalesced with many groups. We joined partnerships. We went to collectives that were aligning around issues, and we looked for those areas of common ground. For example, when it comes to concern for the environment, there are many groups that are anti-development, but they also have a concern for the fact that their children cannot find homes to rent or buy and have to move away.
And this is true in some of our island areas. For example, on the island of Maui, it’s almost impossible for young people to buy a home because of the costs and scarcity. And even to rent a home is difficult. As a result, they’re leaving the islands. And this creates a problem for the local Maui residents who have frequently in the past opposed development, because they now see the consequences.
So we try to have the conversations that hear all sides and find a starting point. And one of the things that we did in 2024 was advance a bill in the Legislature that would require every county to allow up to two ADUs, which is accessory dwelling units or cottages, attachments. That doesn’t increase the sprawl, but what it does do is allow greater density so that residents can let their children or their parents, or even rent out to renters, live in their ADU.
Bondy: Yeah, it makes sense. And that’s something I think everyone would be on board with. That’s common sense, you would think. Yeah.
In addition, I want to move forward, in addition to the Grassroot Institute, you were a key force behind the largest state income tax cut in Hawaii’s history. Can you share the efforts that made that such a monumental win possible? That’s a big one.
Akina: Well, we’re delighted at what the Legislature did in 2024 and what the governor signed on to, and that was a bill that resulted in the largest tax hike in the entire history of the state of Hawaii. And part of it will mean that by the year 2031, Hawaii’s taxpayers will be paying $6 billion less in taxes.
Bondy: Wow.
Akina: It varies depending upon a family’s economic circumstances, but that could be thousands of dollars, maybe $2,500 a year for most families. That’s great savings. And it goes right back into the economy, and it helps consumers and it helps businesses.
What brought it about was a way of working with partners to help them succeed. We found legislators who — and in particular, the governor himself, not a legislator, but certainly influential in this process. We found public policy leaders who really wanted to see the problems that Hawaii’s residents face solved and help them to understand that taxes were a huge burden.
At one point, the governor and I had a conversation, and he was — I have to give him credit, he was very much in favor of the tax cuts. But he shared with me that legislators had been approaching him and telling him that this is not a good idea. The pushback he was getting, he shared, is that legislators felt that services would have to be cut because of the reduction in tax revenues.
I had an opportunity there to talk to him about the Laffer curve — another great concept in the think tank world — and pointed out that wherever the government reduces taxes, that allows citizens to have more revenue.
They spend that money, businesses grow, the businesses invest that money in further growth, and in the end, the government has more taxes to collect. Oh, it’s a win-win overall. And the governor told me that that made sense to him, and that he was going to have the University of Hawaii Economic Research Organization look into that and document the results of the proposed tax cut.
Being able to have those conversations across party lines is so important. Our governor is one of the most well-known Democrat governors in the country, and he was awarded by Cato Institute a ranking of being one of the top fiscal governors for 2024.
Bondy: Wow.
Akina: That was a great win for him, and a great win for the people of Hawaii.
Bondy: Yeah, absolutely. These tax cuts will provide significant savings for families over the next decade. And how do you think the policy will impact the middle-class residents? I’m assuming, and I should never assume, but that this will encourage more people to stay or even move to Hawaii?
Akina: Well, every little bit helps, and this tax cut is going to provide a lot of revenue, a lot of money back to the people that they won’t have to be spending on taxes. So it’s a good thing, and I think it signals a positive direction.
But the battle’s not over. It’s easy for the legislature to revert to a tax-and-spend mindset, especially as they take their eyes off of the bottom line, which shows that we actually have enough to run the government if you’re lean, and as they get concerned about programs that they want to fund.
This year in the Legislature, we’re seeing many efforts to bring back taxes or to adopt more taxes or stealthily adopt them under the guise of fees or other costs to the taxpayer. And so we’ve got to keep our guard up. We played offense last year, and we won. Now we have to play defense and keep the gains that were made in terms of a better tax policy in Hawaii.
Bondy: And it sounds like certain things are mimicking maybe in Michigan what we need to do here. We have a Democrat governor, Gretchen Whitmer, obviously, a Democrat Senate, Republican controlled house, and a lot of discussion lately about corporate subsidies, you know, corporate welfare and trying to come together and bring those tables, everyone together.
What suggestions do you have for maybe a governor or others maybe who aren’t used to coming together at the table? How do you start bringing the sides together? Because it sounds like your governor is someone who is able and willing to do that, but what advice would you have to even lawmakers who might be watching to help bring the two together?
Akina: Well, one of the things that’s so important to us at the Grassroot Institute is the correct attitude. We practice what it’s called “e hana kākou.” “E hana kākou” is the Hawaiian way of saying let’s work together, as opposed to stand apart from each other and attack.
In a lot of partisan politics, people are compelled to attack others for a variety of reasons. They think that that’s a good method. They think that they can perhaps badger their way into influence. And they also have to appeal to their donors. And it’s a spectator sport where we think our donors are going to give more if they see us fighting the other side vocally and so forth.
But in reality, change comes about when parties work together on common ground. And so that’s always our starting point. We’re looking for that. The other thing is we don’t maintain distance from the other side. We actually talk about the other side, so to speak, as agents of change. We look for what motivates them, and we try to appeal to that so that they will behave in ways that are good for the people.
One of the sayings that we have at the Grassroot Institute is “Let’s make public policy safe for politicians,” because oftentimes, politicians are always weighing the criticism they may get for a certain policy action. So we put a lot of time into gaining influence.
One of the ways we do that is we actually write model bills for politicians, regardless of their political background. That helps them to look good. We have the capacity to do more research than the average legislator, because the average legislator in Hawaii has a small office. And so, whenever we can help, we try to do that. That allows us to get involved, to get to know the staffs of legislators, to be there in meetings with them.
And the other thing that we do that is so very important is get the public involved in speaking to their political leaders. We use various voter tools, such as one called VoterVoice, to help citizens submit letters to their public policy, lures to submit testimony.
And we have kind of souped these up with artificial intelligence tools so that our government leaders receive letters that are unique. They’re not like foreign letters.They are individualized. They target the particular issues from particular individuals. And so that has been very helpful.
That’s helped us to, in some cases, flood the inboxes of legislators during a battle. Not just with junk email, but with highly tailored letters from their constituents. That’s been very effective. And now we’re doing that in terms of helping citizens to submit testimony in a timely fashion.
Bondy: Great advice. And I appreciate you spreading that knowledge here to Michigan and those beyond throughout the country. Thank you so much for being here. And I would love to take the show on the road and some day, be out in Hawaii to meet you in person and shoot this show where [we’re] in your office or out on the deck somewhere. It’d be nice.
Akina: How about on the beach, Dave?
Bondy: Yeah, that would be even better. Yes. Thank you so much.
Akina: Thank you. Aloha.
